WARNING: My language gets a little out of control in this post.
“That’s so gay.“
There’s been a recent surge in my guild of people using the term, “gay” to mean something other than “happy” or “homosexual”, and every time we call someone out on it, the protests begin. I can tell you now, I am really getting sick of repeating myself. If I have to explain to you mouth breathing morons one more time why we don’t use that word in my guild, I may actually reach through the monitor and beat the stupidity out of you.
“What do you mean, I can’t be an obnoxious ass-hat? This is bullshit!”
“Come on, man, it’s not even a swear word anymore!”
If it were a swear word, I probably wouldn’t care. Anyone who has tuned into one of my streams or heard me in vent has witnessed my, err, potty mouth first hand. We’re an adult guild. Adults sometimes swear. Not at others, of course, but we’re from a country founded on convicts and I can deal with the occasional F-bomb. What I can’t deal with is people who use someone’s sexual orientation as a derogatory put down.
That’s the part that these people don’t seem to understand. Sure, we all went through school saying it, but we didn’t really understand what we were implying. We probably didn’t even know any openly gay people back then and perhaps we could hide behind our youth for our ignorance, but not anymore. We’re all big people now; we’ve had sex and we should probably at least have some idea that sexuality is an incredibly complex thing. Chances are you may even know someone who is openly gay, too. Perhaps you should ask them some time about how it feels to be continually marginalised based purely on their sexual preferences. Pretty sure they’re not going to say it’s sunshine and rainbows. You sprouting off that, “The raid leader just ninja-ed my best in slot. That’s so gay!”, is just adding to the implication that homosexuality is a bad thing.
Newsflash! It isn’t.
I suppose in a way you’re right, internet smart guy, it’s not a swear word. But it is a jerk thing to say. There are a million other words you can use to express your unhappiness at something, but that word is not one of them I will tolerate. Perhaps try expanding your rage vocabulary?
Argh! The stupid! It burns!
“This guild has serious authority issues now”
If by “authority issues” you mean, “Ensuring people don’t feel victimised or uncomfortable” then, yes, we’ve got a BIG PROBLEM. Someone help! These GM’s are out of control!
Seriously though, as I mentioned in the previous paragraph, I have been guilty of using “gay” as a way of expressing my unhappiness at something before. I now know better. When the guild was founded, we were rough around the edges and we let a lot of stuff slide that would not fly today. As we’ve gotten older and our play style has evolved, we’ve attracted a lot of people who are a bit more refined than our 23 year old selves were. Ignorance is uncool and our guild policies have reflected that for quite a long time.
There are people in our guild who are openly gay, and there are others who aren’t but are otherwise offended when they see it. Either way, it doesn’t matter whether or not you and I are offended by it. It’s not up to me as a guild master to tell people how they should feel, but it is up to me to ensure that people are having fun and feel comfortable reading guild chat or listening in Vent. Just because you don’t understand why they feel that way, it doesn’t change how they feel or make their opinions worthless. Even if they don’t speak out openly when you idiots blurt out unintentionally hurtful stuff, it doesn’t mean they’re staying silent. We know they feel that way, and we’re trying really hard to clean up our act.
I suspect some people may lather me with the PC label, but at this point I simply don’t give a…care. I happen to like my guild mates and I’ve been having a crack at this crazy thing called “respect” lately. That means using words that are more appropriate to the situation. The sexuality of a raid leader ninja is irrelevant. Him being a filthy scumbag, however, is completely relevant. I’m not some sort of net nanny, I am a decent human being. If not being a dick is something you are going to struggle with in future, then perhaps it’s time to look for a new home.
Ahh, it feels good to get that off my chest.
Have you ever had any run in’s trying to explain your stance on particular issues, or are you liberal with the /gkick button when people step out of line? Share your experiences in the comments below!
Forever <3
It’s always bothered me a little how they named the campaign “It’s ok to say gay” because of those exact, ignorant people who take it the wrong way and abuse the word. I think everyone should have a right to be prideful of what sexuality they are, but there are people just simply too immature out there that exploit the cause.
I’ve always run into those kinds of people in former guilds, and it’s one of the reasons it took me so long to finally find a guild to settle down in. Right now, many of my guildies may be twice my age, but at least they’re great at the game and haven’t a need for ignorant language in any conversation. I’d rather play with my 55 y/o stoic and refined vet of a GM anyday, than someone my age in the 20s, who’s constantly ignorant about being offensive. But that’s just me! (That being said I’ve met some teens that have been highly mature also, but it all boils down to an immaturity issue.)
It really is sad to still have people throw around these kinds of words so easily, and I’m glad that you and your guild have a strong stance against it. It’s disappointing people are even still like that!
Eep, sorry for the long-ish comment. D: But I could not agree more with your post!
No need to apologise! You are so right when you say that the immature, unwashed masses just cannot deal with campaigns such as the one you mentioned.
I would love to recruit a more mature mindset in my main’s guild. My Alliance toons are in a guild where I am the youngest by a good 15 years, and I have the best time over there just because of the mutual respect and maturity they display.
Thanks. We still seem to have a long way to go before our members get the idea, but we’re definitely on the right track. People really suck sometimes!
We had a bit of a problem in our guild with this. I had to create a special rank that locked people out of guild chat and people were given time-outs at that rank. We lost a few people because of it but the guild ended up closer and happier. As we started out as a podcast fan guild, the incident made it onto the next cast and overall everyone agreed that everyone was better of when the term was banned from chat.
The time out rank is a brilliant idea. We have the Naughty Corner rank, which we find is a great way to tame things down when conversations are getting a bit too smutty or whatever, but I’m yet to have anyone leave over it. I suspect it’s because back in ‘the day’ it was used by certain officers as a joke. In saying that though, a demotion to the Naughty Corner is what sparked some of the quotes I’ve used in the article, so there is hope.
I’m glad to hear that it all worked out for the best for your guild, and I hope my members feel the same!
DISCLAIMER!
Joshua and his imaginary affiliates do not consider themselves overly responsible for what is posted in the wee hours before the sun comes up when he really, really needs some nicotine.
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
People may be whining about your deontological ethics for more reasons than can be swiftly expressed. Here’s a couple that are NOT for the sake of argument:
1. “Come on, man, it’s not even a swear word anymore!” (utilitarian argument)
I knew a gay man named Matt once, and we did an awful lot of MDMA together with his “hag” Thea. She in turn, referred to him lovingly as her “fag”. At first I was appalled by this, but he just chuckled, pointing out that the word fag has gone from meaning a pile of sticks, to one who gathers sticks, to an old or undesirable woman and finally to a gay man. He argued fervently that all humans were “polymorphically perverse”, a psychoanalytical term in normal sexual development theory wherein all people are born with a biological & psychological potential to be any sexuality, and that he liked his choice just fine and people could call him whatever floated their boats.
Matt believed that if people are punished for using specific words, they will simply use other words, because words are only dynamic representations of things, and the coding for that representation can change with whatever people’s values are. He even used the word gay to often describe situations which were at best, abstractly irritating. He also, however, spoke passionately about a world where “gay” and “straight” were as about important as the words “blonde” and “brunette”.
It IS bad that people use the word gay to describe a negative context, ill grant you that, and you aren’t the first group tackling social division to propose this solution.
In the UK, the idea to ban “ba ba black sheep” from all pre-schools was seriously considered for its negative racial connotation. Matt’s argument was that the worst thing someone can do is make a big hullabaloo when someone is singled out, forcing whoever the rule protects into receiving special treatment, separating them from “everyone else” even more.
2. “This guild has serious authority issues now” (existential/humanist argument)
I’ll admit, if I heard this complaint when I was a GM in 2007, Wayne Brady would have to choke some bitches. However I’ve come to realise that although most people aren’t overly fond of police, they do tend to enjoy feeling safe. Moderation may be key here.
Punishing someone for negatively using the word gay, when society is saturated with such usage, seems cruel and unusual to me. The crime may be bad, but censoring that person from any kind of dialogue or democratic participation is just going to isolate them, and make those people leave, causing discord between existing members. Are you willing to ban people from saying the word “straight” in a negative context? If you say that you won’t because straight people aren’t marginalised, then you’re halfway to seeing why this contributes to all the division. If you say that you will, then people in the guild will know what you’re about anyway, because nobody uses the word straight in an emotive context [-.-]
Fair and equal treatment, unfortunately means just that. Even when it offends you. Even when it rankles. Even when it brings up the bile in the back of your throat! Because the outside world is full of bigots, and putting that shiny, shiny, dragon-soul boot down on the issue and culling any who dissent is probably not going to change the overall guild attitude, in much the same way that the Tienanmen square massacre did not improve China’s public relations.
For us to justify this, we have to argue that actions are the sole means for measuring the appropriate distribution of punishment, and that intentions count for nothing. If this were true, we would still be cutting the hands from beggars for stealing bread. We don’t of course, because usually the beggar was not intending that his victim should starve, only that he should live.
___Bibliography___
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deontology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/600470.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymorphous_perversity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existential_humanism
Wow! For a nicotine deprived post, this is pretty thorough! Thank you for taking the time to reply. Now, hopefully my 7am-haven’t-had-a-coffee-yet brain can compose some kind of worthy reply!
I can completely understand the school of thought your friend Matt is coming from. For the longest time — and still now I suppose — I was of the opinion that derogatory words (In my case it was the word “slut”) need to be reclaimed. I personally have no issue with the word — afterall, what’s wrong with a woman doing exactly what a bloke is high fived for? — but I know others that don’t feel the same way. I’ve known people who were ceaselessly bullied with that word for years, and they definitely do not share my sentiments. The thing is, I don’t believe that guild chat is the place for me to start the revolution. Others may argue that it’s a fantastic platform, but this is my (And everyone elses) fun time. The less drama the better.
I can see your point about isolating someone about the word, but on the flip side, if it continues those offended by it are going to feel isolated as well. Who is right? It may be a common place word, but a certain “N” word is pretty common place still as well. The thing is, these are such emotionally charged words and everyone reacts differently. So, what should I do? Do I punish the people who are aware of our policy surrounding such words, or do I let them continue at the expense of my gay members’ enjoyment? Why even have policies at all if I’m just going to ignore them? A sticky situation, and one where I and my co-GM have decided the “Don’t be a dick” approach is needed. Most of the time, it’s enough.
I should note that I’ve never kicked anyone for using the word. Usually a warning, and if it continues, a demotion to the Naughty Corner rank is handed out. They would be lucky to spend two minutes there. I really like the philosophy that we should look at the intentions behind it, and I suppose that by ignoring the intentions because someone is hurt by the word is inadvertently letting the politics that I personally don’t thing belong in green text creep on in anyhow. At the end of the day, I’d prefer to be ribbed for being “authoritarian” than dealing with someone who is upset because we’re all a bunch of immature jerks who can’t show a bit of respect. Perhaps I need to word it differently. They’re not being punished for using that word, they’re being punished for not respecting their guildies.
As a side note regarding the straight thing, I can’t stand the term “breeder” either. In a way, that is a knock against straight people, too, and I’d quash that as well.
I just started reading your blog today, so I’m a bit behind in lending my thoughts and support to this post. But I had to comment, I’ve thought long and hard about this.
Intentions matter, but are very hard to determine. So I understand that when people say “that’s gay” and they honestly don’t mean it as hate speech, they don’t understand why they’ve done something wrong. Because no one can look into another persons heart and know their intentions, we make unconscious assumptions about what you mean. And this can easily bring the worst out in others and lead to a general atmosphere of intolerance. it snowballs quickly.
And it’s not about being offended. I always tell people they can say whatever they want, I’m a adult and I can take it. (I just may decide you’re a rude asshole and I don’t like you.) But it is about having a guild where we can have the coolest, smartest, best raiders of all backgrounds feel they are accepted as part of the team.
Hello there! Thanks for dropping by
You are so right, intentions matter, and people automatically put their own personal bias onto a comment. In the particular situation that sparked this outburst from me, the people who are saying it refuse to understand why or how other people can be (and are!) offended when they throw it around so casually. I’ve tried several times to explain it to them, but I’m 98% certain they’re now saying it deliberately to get a rise out of either me or the people who have complained. They’ve spent the last 24 hours hanging out in the Naughty Corner, and if they make any other comments, it’s the boot. It takes a lot for me to boot someone, but when they’re being so deliberately malicious, well there’s no place for them here. Your last sentence really rang true for me. I want people to feel accepted in my guild, and if that means I have to have some safeguards in place for times like these, then so be it. It really sucks that people can’t just respect one another and I have to do any sort of “Nannie-ing” in the first place.
I loved your line about taking it, but not thinking very nice things about that person. I am definitely in that boat!
ooo hey, just found this list. Maybe give people some other words to use…
http://iamateenagefeminist.tumblr.com/post/6555208572/complete-list-of-non-oppressive-insults
Sorry, credit for that link to @redcowrise on twitter……
Thanks for the link to the great list!
If gay is not allowed to be used, what do you think of the word raped? Also emotionally charged and used a lot in gaming. It doesn’t single anyone out the same way gay or the N word or retarded does, but it can cause hurt feelings and uncomfortable ones. I’ve heard a lot of people rise up against others saying gay, but barely any thoughts on rape being used as a joke when it is a seriously debilitating and life damaging act. Thoughts?
This particular rant was aimed at the word “gay” mostly because of the situation that sparked it. I am definitely not a fan of the word “rape” being used, either. As with someone’s sexuality, you have no idea if the person on the other side of the screen has been a victim, and I can only imagine how hearing that word used so loosely can be triggering and emotionally jarring. I’ve noticed that our guild policies don’t mention that word specifically, but we’re lucky to have had no-one say it, at least not in our presence. Use of that word certainly falls under the, “Don’t be a dick” banner, that’s for sure.
I’m gay and I never been offended by anyone saying words like these. What I’m offended by though is how some people are trying to be condescending and forbidding the use of a word because of their bullshit political correctness.
At the end of the day, I can’t tell people whether or not they’re right or wrong to be offended or not. All I can do is try and provide a comfortable environment for our members. Most are incredibly thankful and appreciative of this, others have moved on to greener pastures over it. That’s the beauty of guilds. If GM’s have done their job right and have been clear with their policies from the start, you can decide whether or not it fits with your own personal beliefs. It may be “bullshit political correctness”, but’ if it means less drama for my members, my officers and myself, then I’m all down for it.
Thanks for your comment!
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When we first started our guild, we had mainly mature members (ok, in a gamer context! 28+ lol) some of whom had children playing the game too. We also had a few under 16′s so from day one we put in a no swearing in gchat rule. It’s been tested a few times but overall, when someone starts to get a little ‘swear-y’, an officer gently reminds of the rules & things calm down again. Luckily ‘gay’ doesn’t seem to be in common usage on our EU server either so we haven’t had to deal with ‘marginal’ swear words
As one previous commenter mentioned, rape/raped is one that I personally hate & the other is the careless use of ‘retard’. I recently created a US account & the language usage is very different. I do find I have to bite my tongue more often there
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